"I went to Bottura when he was still unknown. The best pizza? Not in Naples." Interview with the doctor who has tried over 500 restaurants

Vincenzo Gasbarri is a surgeon from Viterbo, sixty-six years old, and for the past thirty years, he has done nothing but eat around the world and take notes. Three thousand handwritten pages alone, and what you read in his notebooks are only dates, dish names, and judgments: excellent, great, perfect. Yes, because the food memento doesn't take pictures of the dishes, doesn't mark negative judgments but fixes on paper only what he has enjoyed. In this interview, he revealed the behind-the-scenes of a professional gourmet.

How long have you been visiting restaurants?

Thirty years. It's a passion shared by me and my wife: we eat in places in Italy and also abroad, especially in France.

When do you visit restaurants?

I started moving around on weekends and holidays during the week, starting with local places in the surrounding areas and then moving around. Usually, every two months, I plan the restaurants I want to try. You need to be prepared, especially when it comes to covering several kilometers.

How many restaurants have you visited in these thirty years?

If we refer to the Michelin Guide 2024, I've visited 362. And another 258 are Bib Gourmand. But I also visit those recommended by Gambero Rosso or by restaurateurs, friends who have an eye on the new.

What do you eat in these restaurants? Do you prefer a tasting menu or à la carte?

I don't like tasting menus; I think they are suitable for someone who goes to a restaurant once in a while. I always order three courses: first, second, and dessert.

How does your tasting process work?

Before eating, I smell the dish, then chew very slowly to savor everything and feel the dish gradually open up in my mouth.

Do you pair wine with the dishes you taste?

While eating, I don't drink wine; I never do pairing. I choose only a bottle from the menu and, between dishes, I might take small sips. I prefer a single wine; I believe that having different ones during the meal can be confusing. I take small sips of water and eat very little bread.

And when you're not visiting restaurants, what do you eat?

During the week, I eat lightly: pasta, a side, some fruit for lunch. For dinner, fish or meat, a side, and fruit. I don't drink during the week; in short, I'm careful.

Do you take photos of dishes like every food addict?

No, I don't take them.

Then how do you remember the things you eat?

I have a visual memory of the dishes, but I take notes on Moleskine notebooks, I must have about fifteen. Considering that there are about two hundred pages for each one, you can understand how many notes I've taken?

Countless.

Exactly.

And what do you write?

The dishes I try, wines, bottles. Those that leave an impression are marked in red. Over time, I reread the notes, see how the menus change, how they evolve. I'm an amateur who has refined some judgment skills over time; I'm not a sommelier, an expert, I stay in my place, I don't give judgments, one must respect the work of others.

So, you're not the type to write a negative online review if disappointed by a restaurant?

No, I've never written one, and I don't read them either. If there's something wrong, I tell the restaurant.

Are there any dishes in these thirty years that have stayed in your heart?

The Spaghetti alla Nerano at Taverna del Capitano in Nerano: an exceptional dish, a family recipe. The hare royale by Antonio Guida at Seta in Milan, nothing to envy in Pierre Gagnaire's, from whom Guida learned the secrets: it's superb.

And desserts? Is there one that earned a red line in your notebook?

I love desserts. I can tell you that a dessert I really like is the Zuppa Inglese they make at the restaurant La Trota in Rivodutri, it's a truly great dessert: indulgent yet elegant.

What role does pizza play in all of this? Do you eat it?

I'm passionate about pizza, I prefer Neapolitan: a beautiful high crust, well made.

Where did you eat excellent pizza?

At Pepe in Grani in Caiazzo. Then at I tigli, in San Bonifacio, and the one by the Fratelli Salvo in Cremano. In Naples, at Concettina ai Tre Santi.

Is there one you remember in particular?

Yes, but I ate it in the garden of a restaurant, not in a pizzeria. It was Easter many years ago; I booked for three consecutive dinners (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday) at Nino Costanzo's restaurant, at that time in the Terme Manzi hotel. For lunch one day, I asked for advice on where to eat a good pizza, and he told me, "If you want, I'll make it for you, I can manage." I had an exceptional Margherita pizza.

Has this chef left a lasting impression on you?

Yes, and I left an impression on him too. He was surprised at the time, wrote me a long letter thanking me, proud that no one had ever booked blindly for three consecutive nights.

What makes a dish a great dish, in your opinion?

When you can taste the raw materials. And the fewer ingredients, the better. One day Niko Romito told me, "In a dish, what is difficult is not putting, but removing." And since he is a researcher of the essential in the dish, I follow this line. Sometimes when there are many ingredients, the dish may seem like just a stylistic exercise.

Besides Niko Romito, have you met great chefs when they were not yet famous?

The first time I went to Massimo Bottura in Modena, he had just started, didn't even have a star. I went on the recommendation of friends from Mantua; they told me, "He's good, go check it out." I remember, it was a very cold Saturday night in Modena, there were only two tables occupied in the restaurant, ours and another. We had a long chat with the chef, and at the end of the dinner, he offered us, in a golden spoon, balsamic vinegar to face the cold on the way back to the hotel.

Are there restaurants you have visited multiple times?

I am very fond of Enoteca La Torre; I must have been there 40 times. I saw it born in Viterbo and experienced the changes of all the chefs from Kotaro Noda, through Danilo Ciavattini, to Domenico Stile, today. Then, Taverna del Capitano, at least 50 times, and Il Seta by Antonio Guida.

What makes you return to a restaurant?

First of all, the quality of what you eat, palate pleasure, then the environment, empathy with the staff, the pleasantness of the stop, a series of things. The service in the dining room is also very important. Although, in this, France beats Italy. If Italy is 9, France is 10.

In what sense?

First of all, going to a restaurant in France is normal: in a two-star, you can even find eighty people at lunch on a Wednesday, for example. Here, there are few occupied tables: there is the idea in Italy that in high-level restaurants, you spend a lot and eat little. In France, even in the most banal bistro, you see the uniform, the setting of the room.

Explain it better.

Let me give you an example: once I was in a two-star in Paris, there was an Italian guy, I think from Vicenza, who was the maître, very good, and he told me: "I will never go back to Italy because here I am the dining room manager, there I am the waiter." People must understand that working in the dining room is no less than working in the kitchen; in France, they have the same dignity, even economically.

A French restaurant that has left an impression on you?

I have been several times to Paul Bocuse in Lyon, and one of the last times, even when he was not well, he let me into his kitchen: 400 square meters, it felt like being in an operating room, everything was shining, and there wasn't a crumb on the floors. Everyone worked like a Swiss clock, and there I understood why he was the beacon of French cuisine for fifty years.

So you've had experiences abroad as well.

In France, the cuisine is excellent. I have also been to Spain, around Barcelona and the Basque Country. After India, in London, there is the best Indian cuisine, also Japanese. In Germany, I have always eaten well, but France is France.

Which region has the best food in Italy?

You can't say anything about Campania: wherever you fall, you eat well even in a hidden trattoria. In Lazio, there is growth, in Tuscany, in Sicily, Emilia-Romagna, Puglia, you definitely eat very well. Piedmontese and Venetian cuisine are excellent but basic.

Who are the chefs in your personal top ten?

Bottura is excellent; eating from him is a great experience. The palate experience that satisfies me the most is Da Vittorio by the Cerea family; eating there is delightful. Mauro Uliassi and Ciccio Sultano are also at the top. Gianfranco Pascucci's Il Porticciolo in Fiumicino is at the highest levels for me for fish, the same goes for Taverna del Capitano with chef Alfonso Caputo. But, you know, when one has traveled far and wide, it's hard to say one is better than another.