"They open venues with improvised wine lists. Dealcoholized at La Pergola? I'm working on It." Interview with Marco Reitano

Are customers getting tired?
Not always and not in every case.

In which cases?
Many very similar venues keep opening, where customers go only once.

That didn't happen before?
It did, but now customers choose where to dine with more discernment. They are more aware, their palate has refined immensely over the past twenty years. They increasingly want to be sure they are investing their money well when dining out.

So the problem is homogenization?
Not only that, but a type of dining like this cannot survive.

Marco Reitano has very clear ideas about what is happening in the macro-world of dining and wine. After all, he is used to looking at Rome from above (even more: at all of Italy), from one of the most beautiful terraces in the capital, founded thirty years ago on Monte Mario. Sommelier, one of the most important in Italy, grand maître, guardian of an incredible wine cellar—the one at the restaurant La Pergola in the Rome Cavalieri hotel—culinary adventure companion of chef Heinz Beck, with whom he has built, since its inception, one of the most intelligent dining experiences in the country. A formidable duo, the chef and the sommelier, lasting three decades. A unique case in Italy, perhaps in Europe. Tre Forchette from Gambero Rosso, three Michelin stars. Classicism and avant-garde alternate constantly. Reitano preserves, smiles, advises, smiles, uncorks, smiles. He is unmistakably Roman, never succumbing to tedious formality but understanding the power of elegance. He seats us in the small room adjacent to the main one, orders a coffee—actually, two—"Would you like some wine?" "Afterward, we’ll go to the cellar." We see the brand-new dining room, or rather, the restaurant completely renovated from top to bottom: elegant and modern carpet, terracotta-colored walls—the color of Rome—warm and enveloping atmosphere. Splendid. With him, we discuss breathalyzer anxiety, the wine crisis, strategies, and the future...

Reitano, La Pergola is your home.
Now it is, but it started in a completely different way.

How so?
I was heading toward university, had a talent for IT, studied English. On weekends, I came here to the hotel for odd jobs, making some extra money so I could buy a scooter while still in high school.

And what did you do?
I worked at the pool. One evening, the food manager told me, "Hey you, go get changed, they need help at the restaurant upstairs." It had been open for three months.

Were you already drinking wine back then?
Rivers of beer and Gin & Tonics.

So, in the end, you stayed.
They told me they wanted to create the best restaurant in Italy. I believed in it and set aside my university plans.

There’s a lot of debate about fine dining being in crisis. Do you think high-end restaurants have lost appeal?
Ours hasn’t. But dining in general is going through a difficult time for various reasons—there’s chaos, and it also affects the wine world. But I appreciate chaos, it’s amazing, because something good always comes out of it.

What are the difficulties?
The restaurant industry in general is struggling with staff costs. It’s a problem that weighs on budgets, especially for those who want to do things right by hiring properly. Add to that the rising cost of raw materials.

Are customers losing interest?
Not always and not in every case. But one thing is certain: customers are no longer fooled by "smoke and mirrors." If we don’t offer gastronomic substance, we risk creating "one-time-only" venues—places people visit just once.

What’s missing?
Service is a problem. There were and still are too few training courses, but anyone who wants to run an ambitious restaurant cannot compromise on excellent service.

Yes, but now many customers prefer more informal settings with less rigid service, especially younger ones.
I like them too, informality is wonderful. But now, everyone is a host, and then you see wine lists put together "by hearsay."

So, often there’s no real expertise behind informality?
Exactly. I have an amazing mechanic near my house. I could take my car to a specialized garage, but I don’t because I found him—someone who worked in a specialized and prestigious garage for years before opening his own shop. So why should I go to an informal venue that does numbers but lacks wine expertise?

Has excessive personal showmanship made wine lists less interesting?
That too. And there are plenty of restaurants with improvised, incomplete wine lists.

How has the sommelier’s role changed compared to the past?
Not much. The wine world lacks proper training; I’ve pointed this out multiple times. Sommelier courses continue to be offered, but in the end, they’re for enthusiasts. There are no real paths for those who want to work in restaurants.

The New York Times wrote that to revive wine sales, wine lists need to change: shorter menus, less depth. What do you think?
A good wine list only needs 60–70 labels; it’s not about numbers.

How many wines do you have on your list?
3,700 labels.

Not everyone can afford a wine list like yours.
Exactly, nor should they, because beyond the investment, you need a proper environment to store the wine. We have a vision—I insist on having at La Pergola what will explode in two years. I try to anticipate trends.

Like dealcoholized wines?
I like keeping up with the times, and I’m in the decision-making phase. I’ve ordered many.

So, do you plan to include them on the list?
Exactly, but first, I need to find valid labels. At the moment, I haven’t found any; I’ve been more satisfied with grape juices.

Has demand for non-alcoholic options increased?
Slightly. We’ve developed alternative pairings for those who don’t want to drink alcohol. But we’ve always made mocktails.

(…)

What do you think of natural wines?
They struggle to find scientific and legal recognition. But many are excellent.

Examples?
Gravner. He used to make phenomenal wines from international grapes, then one day, he had a revelation and changed everything. He invited me over, I spent a week at his place, worked with him, tasted many batches. Fantastic. Josko had knowledge, vision, experience like few others—he built that change. He waited for the right moment. He knew how to make great wine; he could do it. But many others? They’re nothing, absolutely not up to the task.

What else do you drink?
Paraschos, Skerk, Zidarich. When I started drinking Emidio Pepe, no one had it.

Some natural wines, though, are just flaws passed off as "new flavors," like brett.
It’s a phase, it will pass. Those drinking brett-heavy wines now will learn and stop. Same with producers—they’ll learn to make wine.

(…)

Any crazy customer requests?
Recently, someone asked me for a "white" Montepulciano d’Abruzzo—which, of course, doesn’t exist.

Any anecdotes?
Tina Turner used to have aperitifs with Sassicaia.

Politicians?
Cossiga was a regular. "Mr. President, shall we have some wine?" "Turriga, please."